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	<title>Comments for the commune</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thecommune.co.uk/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thecommune.co.uk</link>
	<description>for workers' self-management and communism from below</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 23:33:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Bakunin&#8217;s expulsion from the First International by Dana Ward</title>
		<link>http://thecommune.co.uk/ideas/bakunins-expulsion-from-the-first-international/#comment-10150</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dana Ward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 23:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecommune.wordpress.com/?page_id=542#comment-10150</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As for Marxism being libertarian, that is the case only if you ignore history. The dispute between Bakunin and Marx was over the question of centralization of authority as much as it was about different paths to the future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for Marxism being libertarian, that is the case only if you ignore history. The dispute between Bakunin and Marx was over the question of centralization of authority as much as it was about different paths to the future.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Bakunin&#8217;s expulsion from the First International by Dana Ward</title>
		<link>http://thecommune.co.uk/ideas/bakunins-expulsion-from-the-first-international/#comment-10149</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dana Ward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 23:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecommune.wordpress.com/?page_id=542#comment-10149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Marx and Bakunin knew each other in in the mid-40s when both were in Paris. Bakunin and Marx both met Proudhon as well, with Bakunin becoming a life-long friend, while Marx&#039;s enmity toward Proudhon dates of Proudhon&#039;s rejection of Marx&#039;s suggestion that they collaborate during this period.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marx and Bakunin knew each other in in the mid-40s when both were in Paris. Bakunin and Marx both met Proudhon as well, with Bakunin becoming a life-long friend, while Marx&#8217;s enmity toward Proudhon dates of Proudhon&#8217;s rejection of Marx&#8217;s suggestion that they collaborate during this period.</p>
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		<title>Comment on sheffield labour council targets workers and the vulnerable by Chris</title>
		<link>http://thecommune.co.uk/2012/02/16/sheffield-labour-council-targets-workers-and-the-vulnerable/#comment-10144</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2012 09:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecommune.co.uk/?p=7709#comment-10144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I sat in a meeting where the very highly paid director of children services was asking how the council could skirt round its statutory obligations in regard to home to school transport. The director was openly talking about how we can withdraw this service to some of the most vulnerable members of the community.

Remember that this official is highly paid to deliver childrens services! These people have no interest in anything but their own status.

I think this says everything about the nature of state services and about society in general.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sat in a meeting where the very highly paid director of children services was asking how the council could skirt round its statutory obligations in regard to home to school transport. The director was openly talking about how we can withdraw this service to some of the most vulnerable members of the community.</p>
<p>Remember that this official is highly paid to deliver childrens services! These people have no interest in anything but their own status.</p>
<p>I think this says everything about the nature of state services and about society in general.</p>
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		<title>Comment on cuba: the island of happiness ? by Mark Lockey</title>
		<link>http://thecommune.co.uk/2010/09/19/cuba-the-island-of-happiness/#comment-10129</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Lockey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecommune.wordpress.com/?p=5878#comment-10129</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Food shortage in Cuba is also connected to acid rain ie modified weather]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Food shortage in Cuba is also connected to acid rain ie modified weather</p>
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		<title>Comment on an introduction to the commune by JohnG14</title>
		<link>http://thecommune.co.uk/2009/06/10/an-introduction-to-the-commune/#comment-10127</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JohnG14]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 01:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecommune.wordpress.com/?p=2803#comment-10127</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just came across this which might be of interest.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general434.html

Ideological intransigence, democratic centralism and cultism: a case study from the political left

By Dr. Dennis Tourish]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just came across this which might be of interest.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general434.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general434.html</a></p>
<p>Ideological intransigence, democratic centralism and cultism: a case study from the political left</p>
<p>By Dr. Dennis Tourish</p>
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		<title>Comment on reza shahabi must be free! by Eustacius</title>
		<link>http://thecommune.co.uk/2012/01/15/reza-shahabi-must-be-free/#comment-10107</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eustacius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 01:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecommune.co.uk/?p=7676#comment-10107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Iranian capitalist class and its government of radical clerics has been busy publicly hanging strikers.  No complaints from the capitalists anywhere as they look on with envy.  The workers need a revolutionary organization that will usher the capitalist class out of Iran and put an end to these atrocities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Iranian capitalist class and its government of radical clerics has been busy publicly hanging strikers.  No complaints from the capitalists anywhere as they look on with envy.  The workers need a revolutionary organization that will usher the capitalist class out of Iran and put an end to these atrocities.</p>
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		<title>Comment on nostalgia for old labour by Barry</title>
		<link>http://thecommune.co.uk/2012/02/02/nostalgia-for-old-labour/#comment-10105</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecommune.co.uk/?p=7684#comment-10105</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Benjamin

There are some serious misunderstandings about the history and origin of the Labour party. The labour party was never a mass workers party in terms of class struggle. Indeed its origin was unconnected with mass strikes or mass workers struggles. Indeed its entire history shows its oppossion to class struggle. Its origin is in the TUC and the trade union bureacracy. Its origin was about putting working men into parliament who could  lobby within parliament for legislation to protect trade union funds and hence trade union official jobs. It was timid and defensive and not about asserting working class rights. Indeed it was not about working class or class at all. It was founded in opposition to a class party or a socialist party. Thats why its been against class struggle and mass strikes ever since.

You do not have to have a degree or be educated to be in the leadership of the labour party. Putting working men into parliament does not call for degrees or militancy. Some of the uneducated working class men have been the most reactionary and conservative. For example the first Labour chancellor Phillip Snowden who keeped to the gold standard in the 1920&#039;s to help the rich and cut miners pay and working class living standards. Todays austerity is a return to the level of these cuts. Or take a more recent example, two jags prescott. Very working class but reactionary.Its not about sociological roots but working class politics or communism /socialism.

working class is not simply about living in the same area working in the same factory, shopping in the same shops. Its about sharing a similar experience of exploitation or alienation, even though people might live miles apart. For instance, you pension will be cut and you will have to work longer for less is you work in the public sector in Glasgow or sheffield.

unemployment and de industrialisation are not specifically Thatcher or Tory, but capitalist. There have been very high levels of unemployment under old and new labour.The labour party closed many coal pits prior to Thatcher. Post war neo liberalism was initiated by james Callaghan and a labour Government prior to Thatcherism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Benjamin</p>
<p>There are some serious misunderstandings about the history and origin of the Labour party. The labour party was never a mass workers party in terms of class struggle. Indeed its origin was unconnected with mass strikes or mass workers struggles. Indeed its entire history shows its oppossion to class struggle. Its origin is in the TUC and the trade union bureacracy. Its origin was about putting working men into parliament who could  lobby within parliament for legislation to protect trade union funds and hence trade union official jobs. It was timid and defensive and not about asserting working class rights. Indeed it was not about working class or class at all. It was founded in opposition to a class party or a socialist party. Thats why its been against class struggle and mass strikes ever since.</p>
<p>You do not have to have a degree or be educated to be in the leadership of the labour party. Putting working men into parliament does not call for degrees or militancy. Some of the uneducated working class men have been the most reactionary and conservative. For example the first Labour chancellor Phillip Snowden who keeped to the gold standard in the 1920&#8242;s to help the rich and cut miners pay and working class living standards. Todays austerity is a return to the level of these cuts. Or take a more recent example, two jags prescott. Very working class but reactionary.Its not about sociological roots but working class politics or communism /socialism.</p>
<p>working class is not simply about living in the same area working in the same factory, shopping in the same shops. Its about sharing a similar experience of exploitation or alienation, even though people might live miles apart. For instance, you pension will be cut and you will have to work longer for less is you work in the public sector in Glasgow or sheffield.</p>
<p>unemployment and de industrialisation are not specifically Thatcher or Tory, but capitalist. There have been very high levels of unemployment under old and new labour.The labour party closed many coal pits prior to Thatcher. Post war neo liberalism was initiated by james Callaghan and a labour Government prior to Thatcherism.</p>
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		<title>Comment on nostalgia for old labour by ann arky</title>
		<link>http://thecommune.co.uk/2012/02/02/nostalgia-for-old-labour/#comment-10102</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ann arky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 10:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecommune.co.uk/?p=7684#comment-10102</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sadly riots and uprisings don&#039;t always result in a greater social society. The riots and uprisings must have some purpose and direction, those involved must have some idea of what they want, when people are looking for change our ideas have to be on the table, if they are unaware of the ideas of mutual aid etc, then they will not use them. Anger alone is seldom enough, it needs direction to implement the real change that we want.

Anguish for family and friends,
all in the name of profit;
now that really does offend.
Our anger without direction
is a blind archer behind the bow,
we have to use our anger
to smash the status-quo.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly riots and uprisings don&#8217;t always result in a greater social society. The riots and uprisings must have some purpose and direction, those involved must have some idea of what they want, when people are looking for change our ideas have to be on the table, if they are unaware of the ideas of mutual aid etc, then they will not use them. Anger alone is seldom enough, it needs direction to implement the real change that we want.</p>
<p>Anguish for family and friends,<br />
all in the name of profit;<br />
now that really does offend.<br />
Our anger without direction<br />
is a blind archer behind the bow,<br />
we have to use our anger<br />
to smash the status-quo.</p>
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		<title>Comment on nostalgia for old labour by BenjaminA</title>
		<link>http://thecommune.co.uk/2012/02/02/nostalgia-for-old-labour/#comment-10101</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BenjaminA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 04:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecommune.co.uk/?p=7684#comment-10101</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[‎&quot;But deindustrialisation also destroyed working class communities. Working class pride, community spirit, and collective values were dismantled.&quot; 

It&#039;s terrible that in just 20 years the idea that you can be proud to be working class has vanished.

The working class culture that grew out of the industrial era was possibly the most defining moment in British society/identity and social structure since the collapse of the feudal system. In the space of 20 years we went from being primarily an agricultural nation with many market towns to being the worlds first truly industrialised country whereby everyone was interlinked with everyone else and everyone supported each other. 

Neo liberalism destroyed our industry, thus destroying the 100&#039;s of working communities dependent on it and making every person independently reliant on themselves in a service job. 

Subsequently we have now that if you don&#039;t strive to be/pretend to be middle class then you are &quot;scum/chav/scroungers&quot; and that the only people who can truly exceed in life are those with a degree, any other choice is worthless. The thing is the whole idea of &quot;benefits scoungers&quot; would never have existed in pre-Thatcher Britan because our country still have the means of providing decent employment to millions. 

The other point I picked up on in relation to having a degree, there is no way that someone could rise to the top of the labour party if they were not educated to degree level. In only having a party core made up of middle class graduates how can they ever hope to represent the workers, especially those who do not actually see themselves as working class despite being constantly exploited in a free market wage system in which they must sell their labour. 

Labour was founded as a party for proud working people to demand workers rights. It has succeeded in changing it&#039;s whole electorate to run parallel with the torys and together with the tabloid newspapers they have convinced millions that they are no longer even working class. 

I like 10&#039;s of thousands of other young people once supported the Liberal Democrats and Clegg. We saw them as a force for good, for progression and equality and something different to Labour and the Torys. This last year has shown everyone that all politicians are the same shade. 

This government has categorically lied to it&#039;s young people about fees, systematically attacked the NHS and has presided over the biggest youth unemployment rate ever. Are they really surprised that myself and 1000&#039;s of other young people are starting to see workers self management, grass roots community politics, local committees and an equal share of the wealth as the only viable alternative. 

Furthermore they should really be very careful how they tread. The Sun and the Mail can ratchet up their anti-working class rhetoric, but it will carry on getting a lot worse before it gets better and it will just take a flash in the pan for these million unemployed kids with little futures and those who remember the days of the old labour movement realise that we put a hell of a lot more into the system than we ever get out of it there will be big things happening. 

And if the government doesn&#039;t give, well then the summer riots of last year will look like a fucking playground scuffle in comparison to what we can expect in the coming years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>‎&#8221;But deindustrialisation also destroyed working class communities. Working class pride, community spirit, and collective values were dismantled.&#8221; </p>
<p>It&#8217;s terrible that in just 20 years the idea that you can be proud to be working class has vanished.</p>
<p>The working class culture that grew out of the industrial era was possibly the most defining moment in British society/identity and social structure since the collapse of the feudal system. In the space of 20 years we went from being primarily an agricultural nation with many market towns to being the worlds first truly industrialised country whereby everyone was interlinked with everyone else and everyone supported each other. </p>
<p>Neo liberalism destroyed our industry, thus destroying the 100&#8242;s of working communities dependent on it and making every person independently reliant on themselves in a service job. </p>
<p>Subsequently we have now that if you don&#8217;t strive to be/pretend to be middle class then you are &#8220;scum/chav/scroungers&#8221; and that the only people who can truly exceed in life are those with a degree, any other choice is worthless. The thing is the whole idea of &#8220;benefits scoungers&#8221; would never have existed in pre-Thatcher Britan because our country still have the means of providing decent employment to millions. </p>
<p>The other point I picked up on in relation to having a degree, there is no way that someone could rise to the top of the labour party if they were not educated to degree level. In only having a party core made up of middle class graduates how can they ever hope to represent the workers, especially those who do not actually see themselves as working class despite being constantly exploited in a free market wage system in which they must sell their labour. </p>
<p>Labour was founded as a party for proud working people to demand workers rights. It has succeeded in changing it&#8217;s whole electorate to run parallel with the torys and together with the tabloid newspapers they have convinced millions that they are no longer even working class. </p>
<p>I like 10&#8242;s of thousands of other young people once supported the Liberal Democrats and Clegg. We saw them as a force for good, for progression and equality and something different to Labour and the Torys. This last year has shown everyone that all politicians are the same shade. </p>
<p>This government has categorically lied to it&#8217;s young people about fees, systematically attacked the NHS and has presided over the biggest youth unemployment rate ever. Are they really surprised that myself and 1000&#8242;s of other young people are starting to see workers self management, grass roots community politics, local committees and an equal share of the wealth as the only viable alternative. </p>
<p>Furthermore they should really be very careful how they tread. The Sun and the Mail can ratchet up their anti-working class rhetoric, but it will carry on getting a lot worse before it gets better and it will just take a flash in the pan for these million unemployed kids with little futures and those who remember the days of the old labour movement realise that we put a hell of a lot more into the system than we ever get out of it there will be big things happening. </p>
<p>And if the government doesn&#8217;t give, well then the summer riots of last year will look like a fucking playground scuffle in comparison to what we can expect in the coming years.</p>
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		<title>Comment on nostalgia for old labour by Ollie S</title>
		<link>http://thecommune.co.uk/2012/02/02/nostalgia-for-old-labour/#comment-10099</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ollie S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 23:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecommune.co.uk/?p=7684#comment-10099</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This was an excellent article.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was an excellent article.</p>
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